Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister. I would like to ask the Premier: can he confirm that his government has conducted a prebudget poll costing close to $50,000 paid for by the public?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): The answer is yes. We are doing many things in preparing our 1998 budget. As the Leader of the Opposition knows, we hold public consultations, but across our province we are holding 12, four in Winnipeg, eight outside of Winnipeg. We do a series of other things. I meet with individual groups, and this year, yes, we are doing some public polling and surveying on various issues relating to the '98 budget and beyond.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, in light of the fact that the Minister of Finance has stated he will not release that information to the public, in light of the fact that many jurisdictions, including the federal government, have now changed their policies, and market research, paid for by the public, conducting views of the public, is released to the public, I would like to ask the Premier whether he in fact will ask his Minister of Finance, on behalf of the public, to release those findings so the public hearing process will have access to the information that they in fact paid for.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I will take that under advisement, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Doer: I would like to ask the Minister of Finance then, in light of the fact that the federal government now releases polls that are paid for by the public, many provinces release polls that are paid for by the public--we understand that market research is conducted by the Conservative Party and therefore is confidential to the Conservative Party, but obviously if the public pays for market research dealing with public opinions on matters of major public importance such as the budget, then the public surely should have the right to that information. In fact, the public should have the right to that information in the public hearing process that is taking place for the budget consultative process. Will the Minister of Finance now take the shroud of secrecy away from this market research and release it to the public who have paid for those results?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, one can make the argument that the Leader of the Opposition makes on absolutely everything government does, and there are occasions that sometimes information is confidential for various reasons that he well knows. He has served in government; he has served in cabinet. This document at this stage is part of the policy document that will make its way through cabinet as we work on our '98 budget, so he has heard the answer from the Premier. It might well be an issue of timing as to when information can be made available, but I assure him that he will see the results of this survey and polling reflected in the 1998 budget.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, AIDS is an entirely preventative disease and yet last year, in 1996, 45 additional Manitobans tested positive for HIV, the virus leading to AIDS. The lifetime direct and indirect costs to the Manitoba economy are respectively $7.5 million and $30 million for a total of $37.5 million, and yet this government, which prides itself on wearing AIDS ribbons and on sound management, sits on its AIDS strategy.

I want to ask the Premier, Madam Speaker, since moral arguments have not moved him, if his government will act, if he will please listen to the economic arguments and begin implementing the government's provincial AIDS strategy.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I certainly want to assure the member for Osborne that we have been acting with respect to AIDS. The member may well know that the government spends more than a million dollars above and beyond the services provided by Manitoba Health directly to patients with respect to HIV and AIDS, including funding for the Village Clinic, including an information line at the Village Clinic, including funding for Mount Carmel Clinic and for community nurses. The member should know that that matter is being pursued very vigorously by the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik).

Ms. McGifford: Well, I could argue with the minister, but I suppose this is not--

Madam Speaker: Question.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, since this government claims to care about child prostitution and since the more than 2,600 child prostitutes in Manitoba are a high-risk population for HIV, I want to ask the Premier once again if he will commit himself to take the necessary remedial steps in order to save these children.

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Acting Minister of Health): I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health.

Ms. McGifford: That was a very brave answer.

Madam Speaker, since estimates--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Osborne that there is no preamble required on a second supplementary question. Would you please pose your question now.

Ms. McGifford: Yes, thank you, Madam Speaker. Since estimates are that by the year 2000 one in four persons north of the 60th parallel will be positive and since in the throne speech this government flagged aboriginal people, will the Premier deliver and implement an AIDS strategy that targets aboriginal people?

Mr. Derkach: Madam Speaker, I know that the member would want a full and complete answer, and for that reason I will take it as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik).

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, we are concerned that in the last session's throne speech a number of promises were made that have not been kept, and this session's throne speech simply makes similar promises. The government promised in 1997 in March to provide housing assistance to high-risk groups as well as promised a new integrated model for palliative care. Certainly these are unkept promises to people with HIV and AIDS.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing--an issue which I raised in Estimates last year in April or April '97 when he said there is lots of room to accommodate the individuals that I was mentioning then--with 1,300 vacancies in Manitoba Housing Authority properties, what strategy do you have for housing people with HIV and AIDS?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): Madam Speaker, I believe what the member is referring to is possibly an overlap between programs in Housing and programs under the Urban Affairs, under the WDA, the housing for high-risk groups. There is an allocation of funding under the Winnipeg Development Agreement for assistance to high-risk groups which would include people with high risks and victims of family violence, disabled persons and aboriginals. I am not too sure whether the member would like me to answer the questions under the WDA initiative or under the Housing initiative.

Ms. Cerilli: Madam Speaker, given that the minister is negotiating an agreement with the federal government to take over management of CMHC properties, are you going to include strategies to work with community groups to ensure there are subsidy and designation of units through the Manitoba Housing Authority and your government for HIV patients and AIDS patients similar to Artemis Housing Co-op on Furby Street?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, under the Manitoba Housing Authority, there is the initiative that we are looking at in trying to work with the Health department in trying to utilize some of the spaces we have in our housing complexes where there can be a sharing of resources or sharing of directions for the sake of housing some of the high-risk units. We are in a negotiating process with Health, and hopefully we can come to some sort of agreement where we can get the best utilization not only for the patients but for the utilization of vacancies in our housing stock.

* (1440)

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): My final supplementary is for the Premier. In March '97 the Minister of Health said that a recommendation for an AIDS hospice was certainly worthy of consideration, and he was sure that it would be brought to his attention.

I want to ask the Premier: what has his government done to follow through on this community action plan recommendation to his government for an AIDS hospice?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, because I know the member would want to have that answered as fully as possible, I will take that as notice on behalf of the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik).

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my questions are to the Minister of Finance.

Approximately 40,000 Manitobans are problem--or addicted to gambling. Many families are experiencing the horrible consequences of these gambling addictions with only less than 900 individuals receiving help from the AFM.

Will this government now increase its funding for public awareness and treatment programs for gaming-related addictions from its meagre 0.5 percent? Less than 1 percent of gaming revenues is put towards the help of people to deal with those issues. Will the minister provide more for treating and helping families?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, several years ago approximately $500,000 a year was provided in funding for the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba to deal with gaming-related issues. Within a year or two the Addictions Foundation requested almost an additional $500,000, bringing the total up to just under a million dollars. That money was provided at their request at that time to provide education, counselling and so on. Since then, there have been no additional requests for support.

But as the member, I believe, knows, just in the last few weeks a working group with representation from the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba, the Gaming Control Commission, the hotel industry, the restaurant industry and the Lotteries Corporation has gotten together to work on what is called an aggressive intervention program. They are working on the framework of just how that will unfold. There are passive intervention programs now, phone numbers, ways of steering people to the appropriate counselling and so on. This is intended to become a much more aggressive program, and we are awaiting them to finalize both the details and the elements of that program and the financial cost related to it. We expect that very shortly. We will be dealing with that as well.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my second question to the Minister of Finance: now that we have seen so many tragedies in a very short time frame related primarily--as these families say--to VLTs, will the minister finally agree to allow those communities, our communities in Manitoba, to decide whether they want VLTs and whether they want these machines in their own communities, as is done in Alberta and Saskatchewan and was recommended by the Desjardins report?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the member refers to the Lottery Policy Review group which was chaired by Mr. Desjardins, most commonly called the Desjardins report. That was released to us at the end of 1995. We immediately took some actions from that report, the establishment of an independent Gaming Commission. We actually went further on the whole issue of VLTs. If she will recall, the report suggested no change in the number of VLTs. We reduced VLTs in Manitoba by some 15 percent or 650 machines during 1996. Another recommendation they made was on this whole issue of whether or not communities should be holding referenda and what should happen with proceeds and so on. That issue has been referred to the independent Gaming Commission. We expect them to deal with it and report back very shortly.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Will this minister admit that he is in an inherent conflict of interest as being both the minister of gambling and the Minister of Finance, and will he immediately relinquish the gambling portfolio so that we, the people of Manitoba and the provincial government, can have a Minster responsible for Lotteries who actually cares about the people and the effects of gambling on those families, not only money?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, I will admit no such thing. I think our track record in terms of dealing with gambling is in a responsible fashion. We are the only province in all of Canada to have done two reviews of this entire issue by one of the world's most foremost experts, Dr. Rachel Volberg. We have said all along this is not an issue that is driven by money. In fact--

An Honourable Member: Baloney.

Mr. Stefanson: We hear "baloney" coming from the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), from a party that introduced gambling in Manitoba--the ultimate hypocrisy.

The member for St. James only needs to look at the changes that have taken place within the last year where we do have a minister responsible for the Gaming Control Commission and the Gaming Control Commission is responsible for the regulations, for the licensing, for policy recommendation and so on. Manitoba Lotteries Corporation, which I have responsibility for, is responsible for the facilities here in Manitoba, so there is a distinction, there is a difference and she should take the time to look at the current structure that is in place.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Finance. The negative social costs of gambling in the province of Manitoba have been horrendous. There have been seven known cases of suicide. The social costs of family breakup, financial problems have been, simply put, overwhelming. The gambling policy from this government has been driven for revenue generation, and we find that the government's action with respect to the commission or report by Larry Desjardins to be very lacking in addressing the issue.

My question is to the Minister of Finance. The chairman's remarks for change were first and foremost, cap the present number of VLTs while it develops a plan for redistribution of the said machines. Has the government moved in any direction in addressing the very serious issue of VLTs in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): As the member just referred to and read from the Desjardins report, the report was to cap the machines at the existing level at the time of the report. We went further than that. We reduced the machines by 650 or some 15 percent of the VLTs. We also put in place that there will be a review of gaming in Manitoba, particularly as it relates to VLTs, at least every two years, and that review is now scheduled to take place starting in early 1998, which will be almost the two-year anniversary of the information from the Desjardins report. So not only did we take immediate action, which went further than the Desjardins report by reducing VLTs by some 650 machines, we put in place a review process that will require a total review every two years.

Mr. Lamoureux: Will then the Minister of Finance commit today that there will in fact be a redistribution of VLT machines so that we do not have VLT machines scattered in every corner throughout the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I do not think I should prejudge the review and consultation that the Gaming Control Commission will do. The member for Inkster does recall in part how VLTs originated in Manitoba and I believe elsewhere in Canada was at the request of the hotel industries across Canada. Some concerns about some of our smaller hotels in some of our rural communities, that was one of the reasons that VLTs were originally introduced, but I want to indicate to him, I do not want to influence what they will find from their consultation, from their review and their analysis, and they will be undertaking that in 1998.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Finance allow for the Gaming Commission to come before a legislative standing committee so that members of the opposition can hold them accountable for the lack of action in terms of trying to address some of these very serious social problems, because this government has refused wholeheartedly to try to address the serious problems facing Manitoba as a direct result of this government's craving for revenue generation through lotteries?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, again I disagree with a great deal of what the member has said in terms of if you look at the things that we have done over the years in terms of dealing with gaming in a very responsible fashion, in terms of doing the only study, not once but twice, by one of the world's foremost experts in terms of the issues of problem and pathological gambling, in terms of establishing a lottery policy working group chaired by Mr. Desjardins, but not only having Mr. Desjardins, having some 13 other individuals from right across our province representing a broad cross-section of our community from law enforcement to religious organizations to municipal organizations and so on, a very reflective organization that brought a whole range of views and ideas to the issue.

* (1450)

Not only did we deal with the Desjardins report very quickly upon receiving it, in many cases we took actions that went beyond the Desjardins report, and the one I refer to very specifically is the issue of reducing VLTs by some 15 percent or 650 machines.

So I would argue with him that we have been very responsible. We take this issue very seriously. We take the events of the last few weeks very seriously, Madam Speaker, in terms of the kinds of things that we need to be doing in this province as we move forward. We will be having further discussions with the Addictions Foundation to ensure we are doing adequate education up front, providing adequate resources for counselling and doing all of the things that we can to ensure that gaming and gambling does not become a problem for the citizens of Manitoba, recognizing they have the opportunity to participate here in Manitoba, right across Canada and in most parts of the United States.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): My question is for the Minister of Education. Madam Speaker, the Manitobans who attended the government's parents' education forum this weekend had naturally expected that they could speak publicly to the minister, that they could express their own views and listen to the views of others from across the province. They were angry and disappointed, to say the least, to find that they were faced with five straight hours of lecture and 15 minutes of questions with civil servants that the minister only agreed to as damage control after pressure from parents.

I would like to ask the minister to explain why she designed her forum or her lecture series to enable her to avoid public questions and public discussion on matters of serious concern to parents across Manitoba.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): The member is wrong, for starters, very wrong. Her time lines are wrong. Her premises are wrong. I appreciate she was there for a few hours in the morning to hear the guest speaker, Dr. Bill Randall, who is chairman of the National Assessment Committee for Standards and Assessments of the United States of America following through on the president's initiatives in the United States. That was a guest speaker. He did speak for the better part of an hour, but during the course of the day, Madam Speaker, we had in all approximately two and a quarter hours of chance for the participants to take part.

The member unfortunately left midway through the day, was not there for the rest of the day. Many, many parents expressed interest, and I appreciate their interest in having yet another Parents' Forum on the same topic following the same pattern, Madam Speaker, which we would be pleased to provide at another time. The member is wrong in her premise. She maybe should have stayed for the rest of the day and would have known what went on.

Ms. Friesen: I spoke to people who were there in the afternoon, and they gave me exactly that result.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Wolseley this is not a time for debate. The honourable member was recognized to pose a supplementary question to which no preamble is required.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Would the minister tell us what her budget was for the Parents' Forum and whether it includes provision for a published summary of the comments of parents, many of whom were appalled at the minister's lack of public accountability in her own forum?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I regret the member opposite was not present for the conclusion of the day. I regret that the member only listened to a small component of her friends--of the people who were there.

Madam Speaker, I regret that the member does not care more for the whole premise of that forum, which was a feedback accountability session from the government to the people, as was explained at the forum and was stated in the presentation.

At our first forum four years ago, parents clearly asked for the government to implement standards and have them measured. At this particular forum--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Ms. Friesen: I wonder if you could direct the minister to answer the question, which asked for the cost of the forum, for the budget, and whether it included provision for a published summary of the comments of parents at that forum.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Education, on the same point of order.

Mrs. McIntosh: When the preamble and the question are intermingled so that one cannot determine which is the preamble and which is the question, then I am answering points that were raised in the member's remarks. I have no way of knowing which was intended to be preamble and which was intended to be question. I am going to answer all of it. I will answer all the points she put forward.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Wolseley, I would ask that the honourable Minister of Education and Training respond to the question asked.

Mrs. McIntosh: The question asked included a question about the purpose of the forum, and that portion of the answer is as follows. That was the first part of the question, and that portion of the answer is as follows. The forum was a commitment made by this government to present back to the public how we had fulfilled their request of the first forum. It was designed to be a day in which we would provide feedback to the input they had given us four years ago. That we did. As well, of course, the day did include question-and-answer periods at the end of each session, followed by an hour and a half question period at the end of the day.

Madam Speaker, the cost for the conference, which was another part of the question, came to--I do not have the exact figure but I can--I think it is in the vicinity of about $10,000, which included everything from the preparation of the kits, the guest speakers, honorarium, the rental of equipment, et cetera, plus the bag lunches for the students, but that money for the participants went back to schools because it was prepared by food services departments in a local regional school. I can get her the exact figure though, if she would like it.

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): I would like to direct my question to the Premier (Mr. Filmon) or the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) or whoever is acting as Premier. Yesterday President Fidel Ramos of the Philippines visited Manitoba on an historic basis. While here, the president noted the problems many Filipino immigrants and other immigrants have in having their professional and technical accreditations not being recognized by self-seeking organizations in this province. Regrettably, this issue has not been a priority of this Tory government in all the years, nine years more or less, of their governance in this province.

My question to the Premier, or whoever is acting on his behalf, is this: what is this government prepared to do with the doctors and engineers, like the Premier, and other professionals, so they can get the job they are trained for?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Acting Premier): Madam Speaker, the information that the member brings to the House is certainly something I will bring to the attention of my colleagues with relative responsibility in that area, but certainly this community and this province have always been very welcoming to all the members of the Filipino community and others and certainly support their seeking opportunity within this province.

Mr. Santos: A supplementary, Madam Speaker. Will the Acting Premier consider exercising his enlightened leadership in removing the artificial barriers to new Manitobans so that they can contribute their training, skill and knowledge on an equal basis as any other Manitobans?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, I think there might be some debate around the words "artificial barriers," but let me assure the member as I did a moment ago that we do want to welcome the Filipino community and all others to exercise the best opportunity to make a living in this province.

* (1500)

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): My final supplementary, Madam Speaker. Given the challenges facing families attempting to reunify due to the federal head tax and the declining immigration levels in this province for the last six years, will the Premier urge the Prime Minister of Canada that scrapping the head tax should be a priority of the next federal budget?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I want to thank my honourable friend for his point of view on this issue. Like him, I had the pleasure of being yesterday at the gathering in honour of President Ramos. I also had the pleasure of being with Team Canada in the Phillippines this year. I want to say to him that we have always argued to the federal government, and I will continue to do so, that they should not be placing barriers in the way of an open immigration policy. The limits that they have placed on the numbers that Canada is willing to accept are not limits that we in Manitoba support. They are designed for a one-size-fits-all policy for Toronto and Vancouver where there is some opposition to continued open immigration, but we do not support that. We do not support the head tax that the federal government has put on which is indeed a barrier to many who would choose to come to this country.

I will say to him though that as a result of the Province of Manitoba entering into a federal-provincial agreement on immigration, we have finally stemmed the reduction in immigrants coming to our province, and last year for the first time in half a decade we had an increase in the numbers of immigrants coming to our province versus the previous year, and this year it appears as though we are up again over last year. So, by getting involved provincially, by showing our support, by assisting in the process of identifying and recruiting immigrants, we have turned around what we think has been a series of negative policies by the federal government, but we think we could go further, and his suggestion of scrapping the head tax is certainly something that we would endorse.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the Premier and the Minister of Finance refuse to make public the results of their publicly funded research into the attitudes of Manitobans towards their upcoming budget. The Minister of Finance knows also that he is misleading Manitobans in regard to his budget revenues.

Will the Minister of Finance acknowledge that he is actually trying to tell Manitobans that, although last year we received $1.653 billion in income tax, he claims that we will receive this year some $27 million less than last year? Will he confirm that he is telling Manitobans that our income tax revenues this year will be lower than last year?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I will not confirm in any way that I am misleading Manitobans. I think that statement is coming from somebody who should know, but we are going through the process of budget consultations, providing information for a whole series of documents, one of them being our 1997 budget. I will be bringing out the second quarter report shortly, and I encourage the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) to wait for that report.

Mr. Sale: Will the Minister of Finance not simply confirm what he has already published in Public Accounts on page 1-4, that the income tax revenue for last year was $1.653 billion, and in his budget for this year he estimates $1.626 billion? As a matter of fact, will he not simply acknowledge the fact? He is trying to tell us we are going to get less revenue--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I encourage the member for Crescentwood to look at the information that is being provided. He will see the source is the 1997 budget if he takes the time to look at the source of the document. We did outline in our first quarter report that we are performing better when it comes to our own source revenues. Some of that is offset by some other reductions in some other areas of our funding sources, but I will be coming out very shortly with our second quarter report that will outline very clearly, even so the member for Crescentwood can understand, just what our revenue sources are for the upcoming year.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, to the Minister of Natural Resources, the government has allocated $58 million for floodproofing properties or communities ravaged by the flood on a prioritized basis and understandably so, but would the minister explain to those approximately 700 owners of properties at risk, such as the Scotia Street neighbourhood, why the government advised me, for one, that monies became available for floodproofing these priority three properties on August 28, advice, by the way, that I passed on in writing to affected constituents, when on October 9 it was reported that there is in fact no such assistance?

Did the government not know what is going on, did not understand the costs, or is this some manipulation of flood victims?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I certainly do not want to leave the member with any apprehension about whether or not we intend to deal with those properties within the city of Winnipeg, I believe are the 700 properties referring to, and in fact there is an issue. Certainly we fully expect that support will be available for those properties, and that is the premise upon which we have been dealing with some who have taken initiative to deal with their properties on the short term, and we are working with the City of Winnipeg to develop a flood response so that we can jointly prepare all of the information.

I think the member would concur that it is not unreasonable to expect that we should work hand in hand with the City of Winnipeg, and part of that is to receive and to work with them in quantifying their position vis-a-vis the response, and that particularly includes these properties.

Mr. Mackintosh: Will the minister, who has said that support will be available, now advise these property owners, and the people of Scotia will be relying on the minister's answer, specifically when will assistance be available for floodproofing for these properties, and in particular when will money at a minimum be available for feasibility for these studies, given that we have hundreds of millions of dollars in this rainy-day fund?

Mr. Cummings: Well, Madam Speaker, the member may want to provide a shot about dollars being available, but he should recall that this government announced $34-million worth of additional funding, under which we have not yet received a joint agreement with the federal authorities, so I would remind him that our commitment already is in excess of $100 million for the support of the recovery from the flood.

To be specific about the property owners on Scotia Street and a number of others, we will be moving as quickly as possible in conjunction with the City of Winnipeg to look at all of the appropriate measures. I do not know if the member is thinking of specific actions around Scotia Street, but certainly that is one area where it is extremely difficult to develop a dike protection proposal that does not significantly impact upon their properties and upon the quality of life in that area. That is the nature of some of the discussion that needs to occur.

Mr. Mackintosh: Again, will the minister tell these property owners and Manitobans when will the funding be available? Because I detected a blaming of the federal government in his answer, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, as I said on Friday, there is no way that I or anyone else on this side is hiding behind the federal skirts on this issue. The fact is that I am attempting to have the member and those who are of 700 families and households that are affected along the riverbanks appreciate that this is a program that will be dealt with in conjunction with the city.

Again, I am not pointing to the city in terms of timing. I am pointing to them in terms of working with us to develop a plan much the same as we have done with almost every other jurisdiction in the Red River Valley right down to the smallest municipality, where we asked the municipality to become involved with their ratepayers, put forward a projection for ring diking or for, in some cases, even personal diking where there are implications for public property, and that all that come together under a plan.

Yes, the member can assure his constituents that we will work with them to develop what is an appropriate response. That is all part of the package that we are putting together with the City of Winnipeg. Certainly I believe that it would be the appropriate way to respond, because what we are trying to do is get an investment that is appropriate so that we no longer have to face as dramatic an increase in costs whenever a flood should occur.

* (1510)

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): We have heard this government say that they want to see the hog industry double by the year 2000, and we have seen growth in that industry, but it has not been without difficulties. There are many examples such as the people at Gardenton concerned about their water, meetings in Ste. Anne where people have raised concern, concerns in the Interlake about water supplies.

I would like to ask the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) or the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) what steps are being taken to ensure that the livestock industry can expand in an orderly fashion rather than in the way that it is where we see conflicts and the possibility of putting this industry at risk.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, I thank the honourable member for raising the question, because there are expectations of growth in this particular industry in Manitoba now and in the future. Indeed, we have already seen significant growth in the industry.

Madam Speaker, issues related to water and air quality and the quality of the soil itself are all issues that surround the growth in the hog industry. The Department of Agriculture in conjunction with other departments and in some cases led by the Department of Environment are all involved in trying to ensure that orderly growth does indeed occur. For my part, of course, the concern for the environment in which we live and any health or environmental concerns that come to the fore are very often looked at by those who oppose growth and also looked at by those who are genuinely concerned about our environment.

In any case, the issue is appropriately the subject of discussion amongst producers and the government and other interested parties with respect to our waste regulation that we have now, and there are those who feel it is not strong enough and others who feel it is too strong, and work is proceeding on a regulation that will see us well into the future.

Madam Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.