Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

In the government Youth Secretariat report dealing with street gangs, the subcommittee report which was never released by this Premier and by this government, the government's own officials and advisers state that Manitoba clearly leads the nation for the highest rate of violent youth crime. We can no longer ignore this problem, the report goes on to say, and it is crucial that Manitobans work together now.

I would like to ask the Premier: Why has he ignored this major challenge in his government initiatives, and why did he not mention this and refer to this issue and this challenge to all of us in the Speech from the Throne that was read in this Chamber just recently?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, in fact the record is that this government has been acting in respect of this very serious problem. We are concerned with it. We are taking a number of steps, one of which includes the provision of 40 police officers to the City of Winnipeg to assist in this. In comments in public the chief constable has indicated that, through the provision of those 40 extra police officers every year, he has been able to start community foot patrols out of that contingent of officers.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, this is the government and this is the Premier who has cut Access, has cut BUNTEP, has cut social assistance support for the most vulnerable. It has cut public education. It has cut evaluations for kids and young people all across Manitoba. When it comes to a program that helps vulnerable people, this government has cut it day after day after day.

I would like to ask this Premier: In light of the fact that on page 25 the government's own report states that there has not been a co-ordinated response to gangs, inaction, and is leading to potentially dangerous situations with government inaction, why is this Premier failing to act on the challenges in our community and why do his own officials even condemn his record of inaction here in this vital area?

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, I reject the allegation that there is not a co-ordinated approach. We in fact are working very closely with the City of Winnipeg Police where the bulk of the problem is in respect of youth gangs. We have provided extra resources for the Winnipeg city police, and we continue to have a very aggressive policy in respect of both crime prevention--and indeed, when matters come to court, where the situation is warranted we take very strong steps in respect of transferring juvenile offenders to adult court. Indeed, Manitoba in that respect leads the nation in proceeding with those types of court applications.

Mr. Doer: On page 23 of the government report it states there has not been a co-ordinated response on the part of the Corrections to develop a comprehensive supervision plan for youth gangs. On page 25, the report states that fragmentation of services and serious gaps in knowledge is resulting in inaction, miscommunication and potentially dangerous situations.

Madam Speaker, who is telling the truth? I would ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) this question. Who is telling the truth, the Minister of Justice or the government's advisory group under the Youth Secretariat program, a report which we have in our hands today?

Mr. Toews: The Leader of the Opposition has referenced an allegation in respect of the Corrections division that is not correct.

An Honourable Member: It is the Youth Secretariat report.

Mr. Toews: As I indicated, the Leader of the Opposition has indicated an allegation in respect of the Corrections division that is not accurate. The Corrections division has in fact developed an institutional gang management strategy to assume the safe operation of its custodial facilities and to control gang influence.

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Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice, who seems to think that the only solution to our gang problem lies at the courthouse.

When we presented the Gang Action Plan to the government in September, there were 800 known gang members and associates in Winnipeg. Today there are 1,300, and yet still no response from this government.

My question is: With another terrible gang-related tragedy on the streets of Winnipeg this weekend, when will this government finally understand that it has the key role to play by ensuring a comprehensive response to street gangs rather than cut back on programs like the friendship centres, like Night Hoops and bury reports like the gang awareness manual for parents, for example? When will it start to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I would suggest that the member is wrong in respect of his allegations. We have been making very concerted efforts in that respect.

As for the NDP action plan on gangs, I am surprised that his own colleagues in NDP provinces such as Saskatchewan have not even bothered to look at that kind of a strategy.

Mr. Mackintosh: My question to the minister, who should be concerned about justice in Manitoba--not Saskatchewan--the gang capital of Canada: Would the minister at least now tell us that the new one and a half million dollar justice initiatives appropriation, a slush fund with no known parameters other than its vague title, be now earmarked specifically to deal and begin to deal with the gang challenge that we are facing in this province?

Mr. Toews: As I indicated to my colleague from St. Johns the other day, there are a number of concrete initiatives that this government has taken. The member for Riel, the Minister of Native and Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman) in fact has outlined those. In fact, I would reject the allegation that the million and a half dollars is any kind of a slush fund. Indeed, I asked the member on March 27 if he had specific proposals that he would consider important for his constituency. I, for one, am willing to listen; I believe this government is willing to listen if he has anything positive to add to this dispute.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister, who has received from this side, from myself, the Gang Action Plan, which I would urge him to look at as a positive alternative, at least assure Manitobans of this narrower concern? What action is his department taking to guard against increased violence or gang retaliation in our correctional facilities in the wake of police warnings about that following this weekend's tragedy?

Mr. Toews: As I have indicated, the Corrections division has in fact implemented an institutional gang management strategy for the safe operation of the custodial institutions. My primary concern is the safety of the officers in that correctional facility, because I believe if we assure the safety of the officers in the correctional institute, we will also assure the safety of the public. We, in fact, have been making and implementing that plan, and I believe there is a measurable success in that respect.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my question is to the minister responsible for lotteries revenue. This government has seen lotteries revenues increase from $50 million to $225 million while at the same time has chosen to cut the Manitoba Community Services Council, which provides grants to community groups, by half from $4 million to $2 million, while at the same time local community centres have seen dramatic losses of revenues because of this government's lotteries policies. The four community centres in my riding have each reported losses of $10,000 to $15,000 annually in addition to the GST loss of revenues.

My question to the minister: Will this minister restore the funding to the Manitoba Services Council to at least the $4-million level?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the funding for the Community Services Council has been maintained at the same level in this budget as last year. I believe that is reasonable in light of all of the fiscal challenges facing our government.

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Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): To the minister: Can he explain why this government is choosing to create new organizations, new programs to deal with youth and the gang situation while our community centres, which exist and know how to provide the programming, are forced to close the door because of lack of funding by this government?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, I encourage the member for St. James to get her levels of government right. It has nothing to do with the level of funding from the provincial government. Community centres are able to apply to the Community Services Council for support. That has ranged in the amount of $150,000 to $200,000 annually.

We are certainly looking at maintaining that level of funding, if not enhancing that level of funding. If she has any additional concerns, I encourage her to get her levels of government right and go to the City of Winnipeg, Madam Speaker.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, to clarify, it is this government that chose to cut the grants--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for St. James that no postamble or preamble is required on a final supplementary question.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, will this government make a commitment, a true commitment to communities and provide and restore the funding to communities through community centres to the amounts of money that they have lost because of this government's gaming policies?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I think the member for St. James understands the process, that community centres here in Winnipeg, through the greater Winnipeg community centres council, have been able to apply to the Community Services Council for annual funding support. They have been doing that, and they have been receiving funding I believe in the range of $150,000 to $200,000 annually. We are looking at some changes to provide additional predictability and stability around that level of funding, and our government will be coming forward with those changes shortly.

We have maintained our level of funding for the Community Services Council over the last two budgets. Our level of support, whether it has been for Community Services Council, for municipal governments which are the direct funders of community centres here in Winnipeg, our level of funding for the City of Winnipeg has basically gone up almost every budget year. So we have made significant commitments directly through the Community Services Council and indirectly through our funding for municipalities across this province.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, the United Way of Winnipeg consulted with 47 of their member agencies, specifically with their executive directors, and issued a report called Trends, Issues and Innovations in Winnipeg's Human Care Services. In this report the agencies reported the double whammy of feeling the impact of cuts in funding for social services while at the same time being faced with increased needs of people who are affected by these cuts.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) what her department and her government is doing to respond in a proactive way to the increasing levels of anger and despair amongst young people, even in six- and seven-year-olds as reported by the executive directors, and what is she doing about the increasing levels of poverty and the lack of jobs also identified by these agencies?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question. I am not sure if it was one question or three or four different questions, but as far as dealing with the issue of child poverty, we have implemented through our welfare reform initiatives such as Taking Charge!, which is helping single parents to become employed and off our welfare system, therefore benefiting their families. So that is one area where we have made a significant impact, and there are several single parents, into the hundreds, that have been employed as a result of our initiatives.

As far as the report from the United Way, I want to indicate that our government has been working very proactively with all of the funders in the city of Winnipeg through the inner-city review committee and my colleague the Minister of Northern and Native Affairs (Mr. Newman) is on that committee. What we are finding in fact is that there is overlap and duplication among agencies. We have not really measured the outcomes of the significant amount of dollars that, not only at the provincial level but at all levels of funding, are going into the inner city of Winnipeg, and we are not seeing the kinds of results that we need to see.

Madam Speaker, I will continue to answer my answer with the next question from my colleague.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister what her government is doing to address the concerns of the 47 agencies, many also funded by her department, who said that they see a link between poverty and increasing need, including increased activities such as prostitution by very young boys and girls and increased involvement in gangs. Does this minister even understand that, by increasing poverty as her government's policies are doing, they are directly contributing to these problems as identified in the report, and what are you doing about it?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, again I thank my honourable friend for that question because it does provide me with the opportunity to say that all of us, right throughout Manitoba and right across the country, are struggling with the issues of child poverty and how we come to grips with dealing with that issue. The National Child Benefit is one initiative that has been undertaken in co-operation with the provinces and the federal government to look at taking children off the welfare system. We will continually look to measure the outcomes of the programs that we fund. We will continue to have the courage to reduce the funding where programs are not working and redirect the resources into areas that will make a positive difference.

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Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services why her government is shifting the focus from justice to charity as identified in this report and instead why they are not focusing on a prevention focus instead of a treatment focus also identified in this report. Why are her government's policies going in the opposite direction that the 47 agencies have identified in this report?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I do reject the premise that my honourable friend has put on the record. Indeed, we have a document that we have shared broadly with the community in Winnipeg called Families First, which is looking at proactive prevention initiatives which my honourable friend will hear about in great detail as we go through the Estimates process. There will be announcements that will be made that will look at a very positive, proactive way of working with families and not only government with families but with the whole community and families. It takes more than one level of government to solve the problems, and we will be working co-operatively with all of those that want to have a positive impact on families. I would encourage my honourable friend to become involved in that process and support some of the initiatives that we will be undertaking to try to make things much better in our communities.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Over the years we have seen a growing reliance on funding education onto property tax. If we take a look at the most recent snowfall, we have seen a record amount of snow dropped on municipalities and the city of Winnipeg, and once again there is going to be phenomenal pressure for increase in property taxes.

My question to the Minister of Finance is: Is the government prepared to take some money out of the Fiscal Stabilization Fund in order to assist in compensating so that municipalities and particularly the City of Winnipeg will be able to address the snow removal, at the same time not necessarily have to raise the property tax to the degree they are going to have to?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, it is April of 1997. The City of Winnipeg operates on a calendar year from January to December. They budget several millions of dollars for snow removal and for just this kind of occurrence, so hopefully not as bad as this one has been but generally for major snowstorms. I have not heard the numbers to date, but I am sure they are well within the 1997 budget at this particular point in time within the year.

I think it is an opportunity to acknowledge and to compliment all of the citizens of Manitoba and to recognize the many hundreds and thousands of volunteers who over this weekend gave of their time to help the citizens in need. It certainly is a compliment to the people of Manitoba and to the nature of the people of Manitoba. When they say, "friendly Manitoba," that came through loud and clear this weekend.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, we are asking the Minister of Finance to use the rainy day fund or the snow fund, whatever it is you might want to classify it, in this particular case and ask the Minister of Finance whether he is prepared to recognize that this has been a record year for snowfall and that in fact there is a need to assist our municipalities, in particular the City of Winnipeg, in trying to alleviate some of the pressures with snow removal.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I am becoming increasingly concerned that the member for Inkster does not understand budgets or budgeting. The City of Winnipeg has prepared a 1997 budget. It includes many millions of dollars for snow removal. To date I believe they have used very little of it, because during the early part of 1997 there has not been a great demand until this particular weekend. I would anticipate they are still within their snow removal budget.

As I indicated in response to an earlier question, our level of funding to the City of Winnipeg has basically gone up each and every year. It went up significantly again in 1997, because we do share our personal income tax and our corporate income tax and those are growing because of the growing economy. We are sharing those. We share some of the VLT revenues with the City of Winnipeg.

So the overall level of funding that we have provided in 1997 to the City of Winnipeg is higher this year than last year. Again, it is three months into their budget cycle, and I am sure to date they have more than enough money budgeted for snow removal at this particular point in time.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Will the Minister of Finance acknowledge the offloading that is put onto the City of Winnipeg, in particular through the school boards, that causes our property tax to go up? We are asking the Minister of Finance to acknowledge that, yes, we are in the beginning of a new budget but half of that budget is going to be spent before we even get into next winter. Is the government prepared to be able to assist the City of Winnipeg and other municipalities with a legitimate concern and with the amount of snowfall that we are experiencing? We are in record numbers.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I find this the ultimate in hypocrisy coming from a Liberal talking about offloading when you look at what the federal government has done to provinces right across Canada when it comes to transfers. They have reduced transfers by $7 billion or over 40 percent. In Manitoba alone, in these two budget years it is $220 million less in funding from Ottawa. Think what that $220 million could do in our economy in terms of services or in terms of tax cuts to Manitoba.

So the member for Inkster has absolutely no credibility when he talks about offloading, particularly when our funding for the City of Winnipeg is up this year, year over year for the reasons that I have already stated. I will gladly share with him the numbers to show him that the City of Winnipeg, like all municipalities in Manitoba, is receiving more funding in 1997-98 than they received in '96-97.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. In the last few years we have seen the LPN nursing profession eliminated from the Health Sciences Centre, eliminated from St. Boniface Hospital, eliminated from Concordia Hospital, in the process of being eliminated from Seven Oaks Hospital.

My question to the Minister of Health is: Will the minister at least keep the commitments of all of the other previous ministers and ensure that LPNs will continue to have a professional function within acute care facilities in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): The member for Kildonan has flagged, I guess, one of the great issues in nursing. As we see changes in roles and functions of various health care providers to get mixes of providers to provide efficient delivery of service, LPNs have found difficulty within the administrations or the administrators of various institutions have found difficulty in fitting them in within those new mixes.

I think all of us share our concern. There is a long history with the LPNs. There is a body of expertise that is important. How it fits in, in the changing roles of health care providers, is also of concern to us on this side. We are certainly willing to work with LPNs to find a new role within the system.

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Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister confirm that it is government policy that there will be a role and function for LPNs within the acute care hospital sector in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Praznik: I will not confirm or indicate what administrators will do in establishing their mix. Part of what is happening in the system--[interjection] The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) makes it sound as if there is some surprise. I have had that discussion with representatives of the LPNs' professional organization. Administrators of our health care system, particularly under the 13 regional health authorities, will be making decisions for the right and appropriate mix. Professional bodies are often involved in that, and we are hoping that there is a role for LPNs within that system. It may be somewhat different than they envision today.

Mr. Chomiak: Will the minister confirm that at that meeting with the LPNs, he indicated to the LPNs that there was not a role for them as LPNs in the health care system within two years? Will he commit to something at least the other two previous Health ministers committed to, that there will be a role for LPNs within the acute care sector in Manitoba?

Mr. Praznik: My comments to the LPNs were in the context of what is actually happening within the system as hospital administrators are making changes within their mix. We saw it in Concordia some months ago, as they actually, in changing their mix, added five additional people to their staff. I believe there are 195 who were affected to create 200 new positions. There were changes in function and role. The LPNs were the group that did not find a new role within that mix that they were satisfied with, but I am not going to commit.

I do not think it is appropriate for a Minister of Health or a government to dictate to those administering the system who they should be using and what specific roles. They have to find the best and most efficient mix to deliver the service. I do not think it would be fair for this Legislature to tie their hands.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, when the Louisiana-Pacific plant was being built, the Department of Environment required as a condition of the licence that the company line the log yard with two to three metres of clay and a special pond be constructed to collect the runoff from the yard because they were concerned with the runoff from material in the yard. It was also required that the water up and downstream of the plant on the Sinclair River be monitored.

Can the Minister of Environment explain why requirements were put in place at the plant site to monitor the flow off of material in the yard but this government is not concerned about the seepage from chips and bark when they are moved off the site?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Environment): We are concerned. That is why, in response to the issues raised by the honourable member, we went to such lengths to investigate the allegations that were being made to check out all those locations where wood bark and wood fines were being moved to from the Louisiana-Pacific site. Upon completion of my review of the report of the work done in this regard, I will perhaps be able to share some more information with the honourable member.

All sites have been found to be in accordance with the licence and have been found by the Environment department to be in a state that is satisfactory to the department, except in that one case that we referred to where bark was stored too close to a water course and the owner of the land in question immediately complied with the requirement to move that material back. So I think it is out of a concern that we take the steps that we do, a concern that licensing be appropriately rigid and that it be appropriately monitored and enforced.

Ms. Wowchuk: Can the minister tell this House if it is necessary to monitor the seepage from the site, whether his department will be doing any monitoring of seepage of water from any of the sites that have been created outside the Louisiana-Pacific property to ensure that there is not runoff and contaminants in the water that is running off? Will they be monitoring those sites as well?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, analysis has been made of the material that we are talking about, and the analysis indicates that levels of leachate metals, cyanide, carbonates, chlordane, 2, 4-D and pH are below or within acceptable limits listed in Manitoba Regulation 282 of '87, and that under those circumstances no special consideration is required for transportation or disposal of these materials. But out of an abundance of caution, it was felt that it would be reasonable to limit storage to being away from a certain distance--50 metres I believe it is--away from a water course. In one case it was closer than that, and it was immediately required to be moved back. The amounts of chemical involved here are very small as evidenced by chemical analysis and, therefore, the material is found not to be harmful to the environment. Still, out of an abundance of caution, that requirement was made.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, since there were similar problems in British Columbia where there was excessive weight and that was addressed in a positive way, can the minister explain why his government did not work with Louisiana-Pacific in a positive way requiring them to compost this material to a state where it would then be acceptable to incorporate into the land, rather than just moving the problem off their site onto the farmland? Why did you not look at composting and a positive solution to this problem?

Mr. McCrae: Well, Madam Speaker, I am not a chemist, but it seems to me that if the material, as alleged by the honourable member to have certain harmful qualities, those qualities do not disappear simply by the composting of the material. Now that is subject to further discussion and something I will indeed raise and look into as a possible way to deal with this matter. But, as I say and as I have said, it has been found not to be harmful to the environment in any event.

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Government Services.

In less than a thousand days the government's 8,000 computers will shut down as few, if any, are year 2000 compliant. This sorry state of affairs has come about because, unlike the federal government, this province has no standards requiring that new computers be year 2000 compliant.

I would like to ask the minister: Will the minister tell this House how many of the 8,000 computers are year 2000 compliant at this time?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, I thank the honourable member for the question. I think it gives me a chance to give some background as to the direction that we are heading in terms of computer technology within the government. There is right now--at the present time many departments are going their own separate directions in terms of computer technology, which results in the problem with the year 2000 compliance, as the member has alluded to, but, in particular, it is now at a point where the government of Manitoba is now taking a corporate approach to the whole computer technology area and, as such, will be addressing that issue and be ready for the year 2000.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, my supplementary to the same minister is this--well, this government will not be around in the year 2000.

I would like to ask the minister: When will this government adopt standards requiring year 2000 compliances in new purchases, because it is my understanding that even today purchases are being made that are not year 2000 compliant?

Mr. Pitura: Well, Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the direction this government is taking towards the standardization of the hardware system across government is going in the direction of having all our hardware and all the software 2000 compliant.

Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister is this: Well, then, could the minister tell this House how many government departments and agencies have even begun work in this area, this problem with the year 2000 compliance?

Mr. Pitura: Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice and get that information for the member.

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Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, while Manitobans and our party fully support the concept of the Grow Bond Program, we are increasingly troubled by the fact that the government itself does not appear concerned to take responsibility for what are serious and continuing breaches of the act and regulations that regulate this whole area, as shown by the Minister of Rural Development's (Mr. Derkach) acknowledgement that he has failed to enforce key provisions of his own act and regulations.

Will the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for the expenditures that go to pay off bonds in companies that have failed, confirm that, contrary to the requirements of the regulations, no risk factors were disclosed in the case of the Woodstone offering; the current audit with its going concern note was not disclosed although it was in the possession of the company and the department at the time; sales projections were for two months only instead of two years as required and that resulted in, according to Section 13 of the regulations, a false and misleading prospectus? Will the Finance minister confirm that?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): No, I will not, Madam Speaker, but I will confirm that there have been two audits by the Provincial Auditor of Manitoba. The majority of the recommendations from the Provincial Auditor have been implemented in terms of the requirements of the Grow Bonds Program here in our province, and on an overall basis it is a very successful program. I believe there are about 20 Grow Bonds across our province right now. We recognize, and we have said all along, it is a form of access to capital similar to venture capital, and when you provide access to capital there are, unfortunately, going to be occasions where things do not work out and you have to pay the Grow Bond, but on an overall basis in terms of the return to our Treasury, the return to our economy, the Grow Bonds Program is a very successful program.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, will the Finance minister not confirm that his failure, his government's failure to enforce the act and regulations leads to a loss of credibility on the part of investors, leads to job losses that are unnecessary, leads to a worsening reputation by Manitoba as a reliable supplier of quality products? If the Minister of Rural Development will not take responsibility for his act, will the Minister of Finance take responsibility and ensure that the current operation of the program in fact complies with the regulations which the Minister of Rural Development agreed on Thursday it did not do?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, again I will confirm no such thing as outlined by the member for Crescentwood in his preamble. The Provincial Auditor has played a role in terms of the Woodstone initiative, audited that particular venture twice. The majority of the recommendations from the Provincial Auditor have been implemented. The Grow Bonds Program today is one that I believe is functioning well. The majority of the recommendations that have been put forward by the Provincial Auditor based on other reviews are now in place, and we have a program that can meet the needs in many rural communities for access to capital. That is part and parcel of why we are seeing the kinds of job growth that we are seeing right throughout Manitoba. For the first three months of this year, in 1997, the best job growth in all of Canada is right here in Manitoba. One of the many reasons are programs like the Grow Bonds Program.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Finance inform the House how many bonds at present are in default of payment of interest to their bondholders, and what is the total risk to the government at this time of potential failures of companies that are currently in default of the Grow Bonds?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I do not have the information before me today on all, I believe, approximately 20 Grow Bonds in the province of Manitoba. On behalf of the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), I will take the specifics of that question as notice.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, when the government announced its privatization of the home care contract last week, they went out of their way to try to portray the fact that the Olsten company that won the contract was a Canadian company. I am wondering why, in two parts in the press release, the government went out of its way to insist it is a Canadian company when in fact it is a subsidiary of a large U.S.-based multinational corporation from the United States, Olsten Kimberly. Has it anything to do with the fact that the government has been burned already through its experience with the Connie Curran contract which saw the loss of millions and millions of dollars to American multinationals with no benefit whatsoever to Manitobans?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I am totally surprised why members of the New Democratic Party would have a concern as to who Olsten is. They have been operating in Manitoba since 1975, and when the New Democrats were in power they even contracted with the same company to deliver services.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, my question remains that the minister failed to answer. Will the minister explain why they covered up the fact that this is a large multibased U.S. national firm and in their very press release they stated over and over again this is a Canadian corporation, when in fact we know it is the subsidiary of a large multinational U.S. corporation?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I hate to answer a question with a question, but why should this really be a concern to the members of the New Democratic Party, because they were perfectly comfortable--in fact, I believe it was the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) who was Minister of Family Services at the time--as a government to hire the same company that has been doing business in our province since 1975? They hired them back in I believe '85-86 to provide services to the Department of Family Services, so why was it not a concern to them back at that time?

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): My final supplementary: Can the minister explain, the 150 to 200 people that Olsten has to now hire, whether any of the 107 that have been laid off from the Department of Health home care corporation, home care that the government laid off, government employees, whether any of those will end up on Olsten's payroll and whether or not they will be at the same rates and level of pay as they were under the government program? Why are they laying off 107 employees and letting this private company hire them back or hire others?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I will tell you I am really waiting for an explanation from the New Democrats as to why they would be concerned about the American parents of Olsten when they in fact hired--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I believe if you looked at Beauchesne's, a citation will indicate that the minister does not have to answer the question but he ought to confine his answer to the question posed or refuse to--if the House is prepared to give me leave, I am quite prepared to answer the minister's questions and explain to him the difference between having work done by Manitoba employees under the government system that has been recognized as the best in Canada or going to a large multinational private company that is going to make profits on the backs of patients.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable Minister of Health to keep his response specific to the question asked.

Mr. Praznik: As we have discussed in this House on many occasions, the previous Minister of Health in bringing forward this plan was to enter into a test period in which to test the delivery of service by various home care providers to ensure Manitobans were getting a high-quality product at the most efficient cost, and that is what we are entering into. But it is just amazing that the same company could provide service to New Democratic Party governments, and today it is some terrible thing because they are providing to us.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The time for Oral Questions has expired.

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