Mr. Mike Radcliffe (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I want to bring to the Chamber's attention today a serious problem that is developing in our city, and I think that I can invite all colleagues on both sides of the House to join me in concern.

I am told that we have approximately 4,500 of our elm trees in Winnipeg infected with Dutch elm disease. There are an additional 3,300 trees at risk. Winnipeg is unique in western Canada as being the jewel of the western prairies in our urban forest that we have in our province. There are approximately 142 boulevard trees and 395 parkland trees which are infected at this point in time, and I can tell that northern River Heights and Crescentwood--for my honourable colleague across the way who, I am sure, is listening very carefully to this presentation--are seriously at risk.

An Honourable Member: You mean the member?

Mr. Radcliffe: Yes, the member. I can tell this Chamber that Saint George's Green Team has been very effective at spotting the onset of the disease and has been instrumental in saving a great number of trees this summer. I can further advise this Chamber that a scientist, a plant science professor by the name of Martin Hubbes from the University of Toronto, is embarking on a genetic engineering plan to help to save our elm trees.

There is an organization, the Coalition to Save the Elms, which is actively engaged in the detection, the pruning, the removal of the diseased trees, and I would invite all members to join with this coalition to save our urban forest and one of the most outstanding attributes of our city. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, I wanted to take a few minutes to express my disappointment and my great concern to, I guess, the funny remarks that the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey) stated yesterday that she only had 38 hours to respond to the aboriginal youth justice symposium for a taping.

I have a copy of a letter that was sent to her office on September 6 inviting her to attend a community meeting that would be held Thursday, September 19, and then there was another letter that was sent to her office, and it is directed exactly to the Minister of Justice, that was sent out on October 9. That letter at the bottom says: We are ready to come in at your earliest convenience to tape your presentation. A response within the next 38 hours would be appreciated.

That was sent out on October 9, but the half-truths, some people were led to believe that there was 38 hours to the time of the taping. That is sort of playing with the truth here because there was so much time given to the minister to respond.

The aboriginal youth justice symposium was dealing with exactly the same things that the minister gets up in the House and says: We are dealing with the boot camps; we are dealing with the Young Offenders Act. Why is it so wrong for our Justice minister of Manitoba to hear from the youth that are affected by this, to hear firsthand exactly what the youth have to say? Does she not care?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, on a point of order, as I said yesterday, I was asked for a response. I was given 38 hours and the member references it in the letter. Within that time frame I was unable to arrange to attend but made sure that a government member did attend, did participate in the taping, and I understand that it was also quite a successful day, and I was very pleased to provide some comments yesterday.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Justice does not have a point of order.

Mr. Hickes: On the same point of order.

Madam Speaker: I have already ruled on the point of order and indicated there was no point of order.

Mr. Hickes: On a new point of order. The youth justice committee has sent letters to the Justice minister and at 38 hours there was only a time to respond. She has enough staff that could pick up an MTS phone, could phone the friendship centre to arrange for a taping in the future at her earliest convenience, at her convenience.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas does not have a point of order either. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas has five seconds to complete his statement.

Mr. Hickes: Madam Speaker, there is a letter dated September 6, a letter dated October 9 and then the committee went right to her office and met with her staff in her office when they were trying to get an arrangement to tape the minister because they, the committee and the youth, want to hear from the government, so that way they can share some positive progresses that will help governments and all citizens of Manitoba. Please, Madam Justice Minister, at least make time for the December 2 meeting to hear from the youth.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to state categorically that in my judgment the Manitoba government is making a serious mistake in selling the Manitoba Telephone System because it is going against the wishes of the people of Manitoba, it has no mandate whatsoever and I am afraid rates will indeed escalate at an accelerated pace under a privatized system.

We know the CRTC has a record of accommodating profits of a private company and there is no reason to suspect that CRTC in the future will have to accommodate profits to be paid to shareholders in addition to providing sufficient revenues through a rate base that will pay for the costs. A publicly owned MTS is providing service at cost. A privatized MTS will have to not only provide the service at cost but has to provide additional revenues to satisfy the shareholders. As was revealed by my Leader today, there is evidence that privatization could lead to a 9.7 percent rate increase on average. So, therefore, there is no question that there is going to be a serious acceleration in rate increases.

When it is stated opposite, when the Premier (Mr. Filmon) states, well, service will be better under a private system and there will be more efficiency, I say the efficiency that he talks of will come at the expense of rural and northern Manitoba. In a relative sense, relative to urban Manitoba, I firmly believe that the service will deteriorate. In its effort to maximize profits, a private company will do whatever it can to cut services and, in that way, Madam Speaker, I believe that the people of Manitoba stand to lose.

In conclusion then--I was not sure how much time I had--I believe the government should withdraw this bill and go to the people. Let the people have a voice in this matter. It is a major Crown corporation. They want to have a referendum for tax increases; I think the corollary to that is to have a referendum or plebiscites for the sale of major assets. Thank you.

* (1430)

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I just want to take a minute or so just to comment on Bill 200, which is a private member's bill that we introduced actually earlier, much earlier this session. It is a very good bill, we believe from within the Liberal caucus. It is a bill which we believe ultimately should be receiving a great deal more attention, and it is something which I would argue a vast majority of Manitobans would in fact support. In essence, what it is, Madam Speaker, is the enshrinement of the five fundamental principles of public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability and accessibility into provincial law. It is something which I have introduced on behalf of our party for the last couple of years now and I notice that the current member who adjourned debate, the minister of, I believe it is Energy and Mines (Mr. Praznik), has had it standing in his name since April 18.

I would have liked to have seen this particular bill at least debated and just stand to express my disappointment in the government of the day not recognizing the importance of the five fundamental principles to Manitobans and to ultimately ask the government to give reconsideration, given that we have two days left before we adjourn, and at which time the session would likely be prorogued and would have to start the process all over again. A vast majority of Manitobans believe in our medicare system today, and I ultimately believe that this government has a responsibility to adopt this very positive private member's bill. It is a bill in which I take a great deal of pride, in presenting this bill through this Chamber on behalf of the Liberal caucus, something which I believe all members should be supportive of and, at the very least, debate it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, with committee changes.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations be amended as follows: Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway); The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) for Tuesday, November 5 for 3 p.m.

I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations be amended as follows: Burrows (Mr. Martindale) for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers); Broadway (Mr. Santos) for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson); Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) for Tuesday, November 5, for 6:30 p.m. Thank you.

Motions agreed to.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Morris (Mr. Pitura), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations for Tuesday, November 5, at 3 p.m., be amended as follows: the member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger) for the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey); the member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck) for the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau); and the member for Niakwa (Mr. Reimer) for the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson).

I move, seconded by the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations for Tuesday, November 5, at 6:30 p.m., be amended as follows: the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for the member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger), and the member for Charleswood (Mr. Ernst) for the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine).

I move, seconded by the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources (Tuesday, November 5, at 6:30 p.m.) be amended as follows: the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Pallister) for the member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger); the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) for the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), and the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings) for the member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach).

Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), seconded by the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources for 6:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 5, be amended as follows: the honourable member for Portage (Mr. Pallister) for the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger); the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) for the honourable member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), and the honourable member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings) for the honourable member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach). Agreed?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.

It has been moved by the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), seconded by the honourable member for Morris (Mr. Pitura), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations for Tuesday, November 5, 3 p.m., be amended as follows: the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger) for the honourable member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey); the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck) for the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau); the honourable member for Niakwa (Mr. Reimer) for the honourable member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson). Agreed?

An Honourable Member: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.

It has been moved by the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), seconded by the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Industrial Relations for Tuesday, November 5, 6:30 p.m., be amended as follows--

Order, please. [interjection] I know they are having a dispute, but I wonder if they would step outside the Chamber if they want to continue the dispute. It is very difficult for the table officers to hear these changes and it is imperative that they be given due consideration.

--the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger), and the honourable member for Charleswood (Mr. Ernst) for the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine). Agreed?

An Honourable Member: Agreed.

Madam Speaker: Agreed and so ordered.