Madam Speaker: I have two rulings for the House.

A point of order was raised on May 15, 1996, by the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) about remarks which he attributed to the honourable Minister of Government Services (Mr. Pallister). The honourable member in raising his point of order alleged that the minister had remarked that the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) was a baldfaced liar.

I took the matter under advisement as I had told the House at the time that it was very difficult to hear any comments due to the amount of noise in the Chamber. Having reviewed Hansard and having listened to the audio tape, I am reporting to the House that there is no indication of words spoken from his seat by the honourable Minister of Government Services and therefore there is no point of order.

Once again, I would ask and urge members on both sides of the House to use care in the words they choose to use in this Chamber both when they have the floor and when they are speaking from their seat.

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Madam Speaker: I have a second ruling for the House. I took under advisement a matter of privilege raised on May 27 by the honourable member for Osborne (Ms. McGifford) about the actions of the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey). The motion put forward by the member for Osborne read: That this House do censure the Minister of Justice for a breach of privileges of its members in the matter of making deliberately misleading, inaccurate statements about the release of sex offenders in the wake of the Headingley riot and that this matter be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections.

I believe a ruling of Speaker Phillips parallels this case, and I would like to refer to portions of that ruling which Speaker Phillips gave on June 3, 1987: “A member raising a matter of privilege which charges that another member has deliberately misled the House must support his or her charge with proof of intent.”

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I have reviewed with care the submission of the honourable member for Osborne, and I do not believe that she has constructed a prima facie case of privilege, that is, she has not provided evidence that the Minister of Justice deliberately misinformed or misled this House.

Speaker Fox on March 30, 1972, noted in a ruling that “Allegations of misjudgement, mismanagement or maladministration on the part of a minister in the performance of ministerial duties does not come within the purview of parliamentary privilege.”

While I understand that the issue of early release of prisoners is a sensitive one, with people having strongly held views, I believe that the honourable member for Osborne's issue is really a dispute over the facts, and the appendices to our rules book clearly states that such a matter does not fulfill the conditions of parliamentary privilege.

I must therefore rule the motion of the honourable member for Osborne out of order.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Deputy Opposition House Leader): As acting House leader, I rise to challenge your ruling.

Voice Vote

Madam Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been challenged. The question before the House is, shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained? All those in favour of sustaining the ruling of the Chair, please say yea.

Some Honourable Members: Yea.

Madam Speaker: All those opposed, please say nay.

Some Honourable Members: Nay.

Madam Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it.

Formal Vote

Mr. Martindale: A counted vote, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A recorded vote has been requested. Call in the members.

The question before the House is, shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained.

Division

A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows:

Yeas

Derkach, Downey, Driedger, Dyck, Ernst, Filmon, Findlay, Gilleshammer, Helwer, Laurendeau, McAlpine, McCrae, McIntosh, Mitchelson, Newman, Pallister, Pitura, Praznik, Radcliffe, Render, Rocan, Stefanson, Sveinson, Toews, Tweed.

Nays

Barrett, Cerilli, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Evans (Brandon East), Evans (Interlake), Friesen, Jennissen, Kowalski, Lathlin, Mackintosh, Maloway, Martindale, McGifford, Mihychuk, Reid, Robinson, Sale, Santos, Struthers.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): Yeas 25, Nays 21.

Madam Speaker: The ruling of the Chair is accordingly sustained.

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I was paired with the Minister of Housing (Mr. Reimer). Had I not been, I would have voted against the motion.

Introduction of Guests

Madam Speaker: I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us this afternoon twenty Grades 4, 5 and 6 students from Greenland School under the direction of Mrs. Martha Penner. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.