Emergency Physicians' Strike

Government Action

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

On Monday, we asked the government to use as much of their authority and leadership to resolve the dispute and withdrawal of services by emergency doctors in our community hospitals and pathologists at Winnipeg hospitals.

Madam Speaker, we are pleased that the parties, insofar as the MHO and the doctors, are at the table today with a mediator named by the government, Mr. Chapman.

I would like to ask the Premier in light of their responses on Monday toward resolving this dispute, does the government have a direct representative at the table who has the authority to achieve a settlement and end this withdrawal of services, so that Manitobans and people relying on emergency services and pathology services will have those services returned?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the dispute is between the Manitoba Medical Association and Manitoba Health Organizations.

They have their direct negotiators at the table, and we have people available as resources to the process, as well as obviously to the MHO, and that is as the negotiations in the past have taken place when the members opposite were in government, and it is the case today.

Mr. Doer: I would like to ask the Premier, has the government provided the long-term flexibility and authority to resolve this dispute and keep emergency doctors working in our community in the longer haul, retain them in our community hospitals, retain pathologists in our health care system?

Does it have the kind of political will behind this set of negotiations that we saw, for example, dealing with the potential strike of casino workers in the gambling sector of the province, Madam Speaker?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we have a very strong desire to ensure that emergency services are available to Manitobans when they are needed. We regret very much that the physicians are not at work. It was not our wish that that happen in the first place.

The action taken by them, however, made it incumbent on us to ensure we had in place a plan that would ensure the basic safety of our system. We obviously regret any inconvenience that this causes, but we would prefer that the dispute was resolved quickly.

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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, on Monday when I asked the government some similar questions, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) indicated that his government had a willingness and a desire to ensure that they do everything possible, everything reasonable to try to bring an end to this dispute.

We are approaching our third weekend in this withdrawal of services, Madam Speaker. I mentioned on Monday, in a previous potential dispute and a lockout situation, the Minister of Labour met with both the employees and the employer, dealing with the sugar beets situation.

I would like to ask the Minister of Health and the Premier whether they will get ministerial involvement, ministerial leadership, to get these services back in place in our community hospitals. Will they take a leadership position as they have done in previous disputes which we applauded the government for doing, or are they going to sit back and leave this with an agency removed from the government?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, during the process of this dispute, I have met personally with representatives of the Manitoba Medical Association and expressed the wish that matters be resolved through the efforts of a mediator, and, indeed, honourable members opposite were asking for a mediator long after one had been appointed and put to work. The mediator had already completed part of the work when members opposite were asking for one. We already had that, so we wondered what interest honourable members opposite were really taking in this issue.

Earlier this week, I asked again that the services of the mediator be resorted to. I asked that both parties take part in that process. I am pleased to learn today that the Manitoba Medical Association is also pleased with the appointment of the mediator, Mr. Jack Chapman. I think honourable members opposite, if they were in my shoes, would probably want, as I do, to have the mediator do the work and get the job done, so we can get this matter resolved.

Crime Prevention Council

Status Report

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): My question is for the Minister of Justice.

During the Conservative election campaign which was co-chaired by the minister, the Justice part of the Conservative platform document responded to our notorious crime rate by promising, and I quote: The provincial Crime Prevention Council will continue to seek the advice of experts on the development of community crime prevention initiatives.

My question to the minister is, would the minister explain how a council that has never existed can continue to do anything?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I am very pleased to speak about an initiative which this government was very happy to talk about. The council will be a council of experts who will be available to assist--[interjection] Just listen--but, Madam Speaker, they also will be available to offer advice to the youth justice committee.

One of the issues that was raised to us was that we wanted to know exactly what kind of assistance youth justice committees needed, and so we did spend time making sure that we had the person who will chair that group visit youth justice committees around this province. The person did so with the support of our Community Corrections, and names have now been forwarded to us, not only from that consultation but from other interested Manitobans, and I expect to make an announcement on that very shortly.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, if the minister now wants us to believe that the Crime Prevention Council is her advisory council on youth crime, which was announced a year and a half ago, would she confirm that when she promised this so-called committee of experts, Manitobans would never have envisioned a single, volunteer, part-time person with no mandate, no budget, no counsellors, no crime prevention?

It is a phantom council. It is Casper's council, Madam Speaker.

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Mrs. Vodrey: This government has led the way actually across this country, and members opposite who have never offered a solution, who have never supported any one of the solutions which the people of Manitoba very clearly spoke about their support for, they have never supported any of those solutions.

Madam Speaker, this government has a very strong record of movement in the area of youth crime and violence, in the area of public safety, and the Provincial Council on Crime will, in fact, be named very shortly. However, we did take the time to make sure that there was a consultation process, so that the individuals named to that council would, in fact, be able to meet the needs, and when I make the announcement of the individuals, I will also make very clear the announcement of the mandate, as well, at that time.

Madam Speaker, the federal Liberal government also announced an intention in this area, and we wanted to make absolutely sure, and I made representation to the federal minister, that there would not be any crossover of that council into the jurisdiction operating in Manitoba.

Youth Advisory Council

Status Report

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, would the minister also explain to Manitobans why another one of her little Casper's councils, the youth advisory council on youth crime, promised by her over a year and a half ago in a nine-point plan because she said she took very seriously the input of young people, does not exist?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, this is the member's difficulty with all of the accomplishments in the nine-point plan, the accomplishments of boot camp and rigorous confinement in this province, the accomplishments of training of individuals in the school area, the development of the surveillance team, the issue of putting 40 more police officers on the street. He has always had a great deal of trouble with all of the initiatives.

The youth council will be named following the initiative which the other side has claimed was of no benefit, and that is the No Need to Argue program. We looked for youth leaders across this province who are willing to spend the time with their communities and to work with other young people to develop programs. From our No Need to Argue program which has been operating and from which I expect to be able to announce a number of the very important programs that have been developed from No Need to Argue, we have been able to find leadership among the youth.

Madam Speaker, it is this government's view that young people themselves have to be involved in the solution. The other side has only been critical, has never been part of the solution.

Independent Schools

Funding Formula

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

Manitobans have been shocked and angered by the government's recent increase in funding for private schools at a time when public schools have been forced to cut, to spend their savings and have been prevented from raising revenue. In a recent interview on CJOB, I am concerned that the minister may have left the impression that this private school increase was due solely to a court-ordered settlement.

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister to take this opportunity now to explain to the House that her policy of funding private schools at 80 percent is the result of a Conservative-initiated legal agreement, part of a bidding war in the 1988 and 1990 election between the former member for River Heights and the present member for Tuxedo (Mr. Filmon).

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member is an historian and I think perhaps might be interested in exploring the history of this whole situation of independent funding for private schools or independent schools in Manitoba. I think perhaps she may have read something about it, if she presses her memory, may be able to recall some of the facts surrounding this. That is, of course, that even her previous leader--when Mr. Pawley was in office, Mr. Penner indicated that he felt that there should be some sort of formula to address, and that is what we are doing, independent funding for independent schools.

The fact is, Madam Speaker, that a 100 percent funding settlement ordered by the courts would have cost the taxpayers of Manitoba far much more money than the very pragmatic out-of-court settlement that was reached by this government and the independent schools in 1990, which will see us moving this year to 68 percent of the operating costs of public schools, not the capital costs.

The member also should be conscious of the economics of the situation, that if those students were all to return to the public school system tomorrow, an extra $8 million would be needed to be raised by the people of Manitoba. So I think it is a very pragmatic out-of-court settlement.

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Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, I would like to challenge the minister to table that court order.

Will she tell us the date of the court order which ordered the government to pay 80 percent? This is a Conservative election promise. This is an initiation of an agreement by the Conservative government. It is not a court order. Would the minister again clarify that for the House?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I would encourage the member to think clearly about the implications of what she has just said.

Madam Speaker, if we had a court order ordering us to fund it 100 percent, which was the case proceeding to the court, we would have been paying a lot more than we did with the agreement that we arrived at out of court, and I have specifically said out-of-court settlement in my first answer, repeated it again in my second answer.

Out-of-court settlements, Madam Speaker, are put in place to avoid costly solutions. They are usually pragmatic, common-sense solutions to avoid an ultimate higher cost. That is what we have done. That is what I have said.

I encourage the member to think clearly about what a definition of out of court means as opposed to a court order. To me, the meaning is clear.

Ms. Friesen: Will the minister tell us, as the minister responsible for public education, whether it is her intention over the term of this government to continue to deliberately undermine public education, as she is doing, by systematically taking from the public school funds and applying them to the support of private selective schools?

Mrs. McIntosh: May I remind the member opposite, Madam Speaker, that I am the Minister of Education in Manitoba, not just one branch of education but all education in Manitoba, all education including funded, nonfunded, public schools, universities, colleges, home schoolers, education in Manitoba.

May I also remind the member, let there be no doubt ever in anybody's mind of my commitment to the public school system. My record on that is much more clear than hers.

I reject, as well, the concept that the member has tried to raise in the House, the implication she has tried to leave as if it were a fact when it is not a fact, that money going to independent schools robs the private system, because, Madam Speaker, if all of those private students enrolled tomorrow in the public school system, the taxpayers of Manitoba would have to cough up another $8 million to fund the system, and that is money that she thinks we do not have any obligation to be concerned about.

I am saying we have a pragmatic, common-sense, out-of-court settlement that is fair to the public system, fair to the taxpayer and fair to the independent schools which pay a user fee and make a choice to have other things in their system, as well.

Highway Maintenance/Upgrading

Wabowden

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My question is for the Minister responsible for MPIC.

Will the minister assure northerners that none of the more than $250,000 in costs so far from the failed Wabowden paving project, which affected over 250 vehicles, will result in higher premiums next year for the vehicle owners?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Madam Speaker, the claims records are used in the determination of rates, but they are not that specific in that a situation of this nature would have a direct regional impact, and certainly I think the minister yesterday confirmed that we were looking into this situation.

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Mr. Jennissen: My supplementary question is to the Minister of Highways.

Will the Minister of Highways assure northern Manitobans that the extra costs incurred at Wabowden will not be deducted from committed highway capital expenditures for northern Manitoba which are already pitifully low, in fact less than 6 percent of the total Highways budget due to continual cutbacks?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, I think the member needs to understand what happened up there. The sealcoating crew was putting a seal on the road, which they do all over the province, which they have done for 30 years, and for reasons as yet completely undefined, it failed and it stuck to the tires and it caused MPIC claims.

Staff have done this across the province for some 30 years. It is the first failure of this nature. One happened also in Saskatchewan last year which cost them in the vicinity of $2 million in claims. It is serious. My department has accepted the deductible liability on behalf of MPIC for the individuals involved.

As the member already knows, we are in the process of determining where the fault is, whether it is with the emulsion, whether it is with the weather. It did rain after it was put on, but that happens in other locations in the province. Something unique happened here. When the actual truth is found or the process of fact-finding is completed, we will let the member know, and then certainly the liability will be sorted out. At this stage, it is not definitely in any one location.

Vehicle Safety Inspection Program

Garage Suspensions

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): My final supplementary is to the Minister of Highways.

Given the admission by the minister that there are several cases of wildly different charges for repairs of the same car under the private vehicle safety program, what changes will the minister make so that people know what garages have been suspended and the public is thus protected from gouging?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, some 800 garages have been certified across the province. It creates jobs in all kinds of local communities to do the inspections. Under the old MPIC random program, about 25,000 cars were inspected per year. Under this program, about 150,000 to 200,000 cars or about a third of all the cars and light trucks on the road will go through inspection every year. It improves safety on the road, no question.

We are in a learning curve to be sure that everything is done precisely, according to the handbook. On behalf of the mechanics, I would say it is difficult to get exactly everything right in a handbook that is this thick. Our department is working with the various garages. They respond to customer complaints where people feel that there is something out of the ordinary as we work our way through, but I can guarantee to the member safer vehicles are on the road, and many vehicles that people knew would not pass the inspection are no longer on the road because they could not get a registration.

So we are taking unsafe vehicles off the road and improving the safety of those on the road. I hope the member would support that.

Emergency Physicians' Strike

Government Action

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

For hours and hours we have debated through the Health Estimates what is first and foremost in this Minister of Health's mind whenever he talks about health care reform, and that is what is in the best interest of the patient. This minister is taking great pride in saying that he is going to take what action he believes is in the patient's best interest.

Madam Speaker, I believe very firmly that what is in the best interest of the patient today is to end the strike for emergency services.

I would appeal to the Minister of Health. Does he not concur that it is indeed in the best interest of the patient today if we end the strike of emergency services?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Yes, I do agree that would be a good thing to do, Madam Speaker. I think if I can look ahead to the honourable member's next question, I would probably disagree with what he is going to suggest, certainly at this time.

Madam Speaker, in my previous responses to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), I stated that I regret that this strike is taking place. I do not think it should be. It is, and we are trying to get it resolved through the use of mediation services.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the minister, is he prepared to live up to what he has said in the past and put the patient first and bring in legislation that would legislate them back to work?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, we have at every step put the patient first, and as I said, for those who require services that are neither emergent or urgent, those people are finding a great deal of inconvenience.

I understand that, and I regret that, too, but I say, Madam Speaker, I would invite the honourable member, if he is truly concerned, as his demeanour today would tend to indicate, truly concerned about patients and about the health system, I would suggest that he join me in calling upon his counterpart in Ottawa, the Honourable Diane Marleau, Minister of Health and Welfare for Canada, to take a different sort of approach in her dealings with provincial Ministers of Health whose job it is to be the front line in the delivery of health care services in our country.

If the honourable member really wants to help, he might be sending some questions along to his colleagues in Ottawa.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I am not too sure if the federal government can actually legislate them back to work.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Inkster, for a final supplementary question.

Mr. Lamoureux: My question to the minister is, at what point is he prepared to look at the possibility of legislating emergency services workers back to work, or is he quite content to allow this strike to go on indefinitely and at what cost to the people in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I said I did not think there should be a strike on in the first place. It would be my preference that emergency physicians and pathologists who deliver very, very important services to Winnipeggers and Manitobans would be on the job and not on strike. I think that is an inappropriate way to deal with this, but that having been said, I have been overruled on that point by the physicians themselves. They have taken this approach which I am trying to bring to an end.

The honourable member suggests that perhaps something more heavy-handed is in order. Well, Madam Speaker, we have put into place a contingency plan to deal with this. Today's report, for example, is that all the hospitals are managing well. Now that, under all of the circumstances, is acceptable to me. My preference would be that the doctors go back to work.

Public Health Inspections

Information Release

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): A recent story on television indicated that as regards public health inspections, the inspections undertaken by the city appear to be at a higher standard, but more importantly, provide more public information regarding health inspections than do inspections by the province.

Can the minister today confirm that he will instruct provincial health officials to make public information regarding public health inspections by the province in the city of Winnipeg?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I appreciate the honourable member's suggestion, Madam Speaker. Public health inspections and certain other services delivered by the province and the city were the subject of recent discussions between myself and Councillor O'Shaughnessy in looking at the whole system in the city of Winnipeg.

I will certainly take the main part of the honourable member's question and look into that and get back to him about that.

Jurisdiction

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister confirm--and he has indicated in his response to my first question--that, in fact, the City of Winnipeg and the province are presently negotiating to have the City of Winnipeg take over public health activities within the city of Winnipeg?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I do not know if the honourable member has it just the way I put it. Madam Speaker, we discussed this and other matters, and to get perhaps a better rationalized system of health services working in the city of Winnipeg, we are looking at the possibilities.

What those possibilities might be today, I am not able to say until I hear further as to what officials have learned through their investigations.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I will table a copy of a letter from Councillor O'Shaughnessy to the residents in Kildonan and Garden City areas indicating, and I quote: "we are currently negotiating to have the jurisdiction of the Health Department expanded to cover the entire city. This would mean our public health nurses and health inspectors would come under control of the city for the first time."

Can the minister indicate whether or not that is, in fact, a representation of his negotiations with the city and with Councillor O'Shaughnessy?

Mr. McCrae: I have not seen the letter the honourable member is tabling yet, but the discussions that Councillor O'Shaughnessy and I had had to do with a more efficient way of dealing with the various health services provided by the two levels of government.

We both see an opportunity perhaps to find some administrative efficiencies which would either make more money available for the direct service delivery or somehow improve service delivery to the people of Winnipeg.

CN Rail

Layoffs--Transcona Shops

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, yesterday CN announced the layoff of another 266 employees at its Transcona Shops operation. This brings to a total of 625 the number of jobs lost at the Transcona Shops operation to this point in 1995. At the end of this year, the employment will stand at some 760 jobs, down from 2,500 when this government came to office.

I want to ask this government, Madam Speaker, will the government confirm that there may be another 100 jobs lost before the end of this year at the Transcona Shops operation, in addition to the jobs that have just been announced yesterday and that there may be a three-month shutdown of this shop operation?

When will this government stand up and speak up for the rail jobs in this province since they gave away millions of dollars in fuel tax revenue to the railways?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, although we are certainly disappointed that this would happen to these people, I think the member misrepresented the circumstances. The jobs are not lost. These are just layoffs related to--CN is a federal Crown corporation, but these are jobs related to a decline in grain traffic which the member, I am sure, is aware of. There has been a significant decline. When there is less product to haul, naturally there are fewer people needed.

I fully expect, as the harvest is coming off, grain is in the system, we know the supply line is very, very empty around the world, a high demand that the jobs will be called back very, very soon. There is every indication the grain volume will come up. It was certainly a surprise to the railroads on how it fell in the last two months.

Madam Speaker, I also understand that across the western Canada network there are some other 500 layoffs within CN because of the same problem. There is less product in the system to haul at this specific time, but it should pick up very, very soon.

Mr. Reid: Madam Speaker, considering this spring's shortage of grain hopper cars affecting farmers and export customers alike, has the Minister of Highways and Transportation pressed CN to explain why these 266 laid-off employees are not working on the long line of hopper cars currently awaiting repairs at the Transcona Shops, or are we going to await another car shortage before this government takes some action?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, with regard to rail transportation, CN and CP at the management level and mid-management level have some very difficult decisions to make in the course of what is going on right now.

There is no question that the person who is paying the freight bill for hauling that grain has been severely impacted by the elimination of the Western Grain Transportation Act. Some $650 million over the last few years has disappeared out of the transportation economy of western Canada, and when they have to pay higher costs, like, for instance, Manitoba shippers have gone from $10 a tonne in some cases to $20 a tonne and in some cases to over $30 a tonne and even for feed barley to $40 a tonne, a fourfold increase, they cannot just absorb it.

So, Madam Speaker, I can assure you there is a lot of stimulus out there for hauling more specifically to dedicated markets, to value-adding that through livestock as the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) has talked about. Those are the adjustments that are going on.

No question that the railroads will haul something in the future, maybe not as much bulk grain but certainly more value-added processed commodities, maybe to different markets than in the past. So everybody is going through a very difficult adjustment as to how to read the future at this point in time.

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Mr. Reid: That answer is not going to help the farmers of this province, that is for sure.

Has the Minister of Highways and Transportation asked CN to explain the 266 job losses that were announced yesterday which CN blames on the downturn in grain traffic, when CP Rail which also moves grain has not experienced a similar circumstance? Why is that the case, Madam Speaker?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, one would assume that CP would encounter the same problem, but they both do their books maybe in a little different fashion. They haul from different regions of the Prairies. They haul different commodities. I mean, no question CN has indicated that they have had a significant decrease in the amount of grain to haul, therefore it has affected their bottom line in a very significant way, and CN is very definitely wanting to show a positive bottom line. I would commend any company that wants to show a positive bottom line today.

Madam Speaker, I hope the member would reflect on what I said earlier. Difficult adjustments are occurring throughout the grain industry, and nobody will be unaffected by it. It was all stimulated and triggered by a federal government which took away a Crow subsidy which they never talked about taking away during the federal election campaign.

Water Resources

Bacteria Monitoring

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): My questions are for the Minister of Environment.

Madam Speaker, the answers that the Minister of Environment has provided to this House regarding his government's concern for the high level of fecal coliform count in bacteria in Manitoba waterways are less than reassuring. This was demonstrated this past summer when the levels of bacteria found at a number of the provincial beaches here in the province reached levels 10 times the department's own acceptable level.

My question for the minister: Will the minister confirm that his department does not monitor the bacteria level on a daily basis, and therefore the public has no way of knowing whether the water is safe to swim in?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, he is correct that on an ongoing daily basis that function is not performed, but wherever there is an indication that surveillance and testing should be increased, we respond.

That is based upon the information that we gather to make sure that we are not responding in a way that would (a) jeopardize any public health or (b) create undue alarm.

Mr. Dewar: Will the minister then tell the House what levels of bacteria his department was detecting this past summer?

Mr. Cummings: Well, I am afraid my memory is not that good, Madam Speaker, that I could respond precisely.

I think that the member should be clear on the fact, though, that a number of the accusations that were made about levels that were unacceptable at beaches were not necessarily substantiated by further testing or by factual information that was gathered in following up on some of the questions that were raised.

One should never disregard the importance of this information and should always err on the side of caution, but I do not think that the member should unnecessarily raise the issue as one that is not being carefully watched.

Mr. Dewar: Madam Speaker, when it comes to protecting Manitoba's interests in terms of the environment, this government is far too cautious.

My final question is, why has this minister not acted upon the recommendations of the Clean Environment Commission and developed a more aggressive communication program which included a high bacteria public warning system so that the health of Manitobans is not compromised?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, that, in fact, is being done. I think the member is probably referring to the recommendations within the city of Winnipeg. He might well be interested in sharing some of the concerns that were raised with me when areas were, in fact, signed and flagged. It certainly requires diligence, but it certainly does not require that alarmist attitudes be put in place.

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

Government Briefings

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, yesterday, the Premier indicated to the media that Mr. Jules Benson, the secretary of Treasury Board and the former treasurer of the Progressive Conservative Party, was present at MEC meetings throughout the period from January until the provincial election on April 25. Further, the Premier indicated that Mr. Benson, while present, did not commit the province to spending more than $10 million before the election but that he was present throughout this period.

Will the Premier tell the House how many meetings Mr. Benson attended during this period of time, and how many times he met with the Premier during that period of time, January to April 25?

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, for a very short response.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, my memory is not that good.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, for one very quick question.

Mr. Sale: Can the Premier then tell the House how he knew, as he stated on CJOB on April 18, that MEC had raised over $100 million in investment and loan capital? If he had not had any briefings, how did he know that?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I do not know how he segues into saying that I did not have any briefings. All I have said consistently over and over and over again is that our only commitment that was made was $10 million.

He has heard it from Mr. Cam Osler. He has heard it from John Loewen, the president. He has heard it from Charlie Spiring. He has heard it from the lawyers on behalf of MEC. He has heard it from everybody there who has any credibility who was involved, and he insists on trying to spin a falsehood, Madam Speaker. It is absolute nonsense, and he has no credibility.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has indeed expired.

Point of Order

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, quickly, on a point of order.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) once again used a term which is unparliamentary. "Falsehood" is very clearly identified in Beauchesne's Citation 489. So I would, once again, ask that either the First Minister withdraw or that you ask him to withdraw that comment unequivocally.

Madam Speaker: Indeed, the honourable member for Thompson does have a point of order. The word "falsehood" has been ruled unparliamentary.

I would ask the honourable First Minister to withdraw unequivocally the word "falsehood."

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, there is no question in my mind that the information provided by the member is absolutely, totally false. I withdraw, however, the comment about falsehood.

Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable First Minister.

Speaker's Ruling

Madam Speaker: I have a ruling for the House.

On June 29, I also took under advisement a point of order raised by the honourable government House leader respecting words contained in a question asked by the honourable member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale).

I have perused Hansard and find that the question contained the following words, "I would like to ask the Deputy Premier whether on Monday evening of this week past they received a briefing with some substantive detail from the Dominion-Hunt Spirit consortium in cabinet, which were left with members of cabinet."

Beauchesne Citation 411(2) provides that questions may not seek information about proceedings in cabinet. Speaker Phillips in 1986 applied this citation in ruling a similar question out of order.

I am ruling that question did contravene Beauchesne Citation 411(2) and is therefore out of order.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

December 6 Women's Memorial Committee

Women's Memorial Garden Opening

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, I request leave to make a nonpolitical announcement.

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Osborne have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, on Sunday, December 24 at 2 p.m., the December 6 Women's Memorial Committee plans the opening and dedication of the December 6 women's memorial garden. The site is in the northeast section of the Legislative grounds, just to the right of the parking circle if you are facing Broadway.

Shortly after the murder of the 14 young women in Montreal's École polytechnique on December 6, 1989, a group of Winnipeg women gathered and determined to take action against violence and misogyny. In the face of the Montreal murders, they decided to honour and celebrate the lives and rights of Manitoba women by creating a living memorial, or as they term it, quote, a living commitment to the lives of Manitoba women.

The program on Sunday will include a dedication, music, open mike, acknowledgements and commemorative T-shirts for sale.

The December 6 Women's Memorial Committee welcomes your support and participation. I know all members of the Assembly will join with me in acknowledging the vision, hard work and commitment of these women. Thank you.

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Legion Week

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, do I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Burrows have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, since this is Legion Week, I would like to commend and congratulate the Ukrainian Canadian veterans, Branch 141 of the Royal Canadian Legion. I would like to commend them for all their service to veterans, for visiting veterans at Veterans Manor and Deer Lodge, for their hospital visiting and for providing honour guards for funerals. I would like to commend them for their service to the community, which is considerable. They sponsor four baseball teams. They have a seniors club. They have a Ukrainian dance group and air cadets.

There are many other activities for which they should also be commended, including donations to numerous charities in the north end and Winnipeg. I would also like to congratulate them since this is the 50th anniversary of this branch. It is also the largest Ukrainian Canadian veterans branch in Canada with over 1,200 members. I look forward to celebrating with them on October 29 at their banquet to commemorate their 50th anniversary. Thank you.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, might I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Kildonan have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, I would also like to join in congratulating Legion 141 for all of its efforts. I would also today like to congratulate the Royal Canadian Legion, Branch No. 30, West Kildonan Royal Canadian Legion where I had the pleasure of attending last night their Legion Week veterans dinner, a dinner where we had an opportunity to honour all veterans of all conflicts in which Canada was involved. I found the evening, as I normally do at legion events, very inspirational and very hopeful.

I would like to commemorate the organizers of this particular event and congratulate all members of the Royal Canadian Legion West Kildonan Branch and, in particular, Les Weber and his committee for organizing such an outstanding event and doing their part to remember the sacrifice and the efforts of all those Canadians who have sacrificed themselves in many ways to preserve our freedom. Thank you, Madam Speaker.